November 1996(C) Bloodlines Mailing List archive
Nov15-Nov22, 1996
In this group of posts we have ideas on turning others onto John's music
and a reminder of November 22, 1963 - REB
__________________________________________________________________
Subj: Thank You Lonesome Picker
Date: 96-11-15
From: ddunet@concentric.net (Michelle L Stevens)
By the way, has anyone heard the song, "Thank You Lonesome Picker" by Jeff
McDonald? Does anyone besides me have the album? I love this song, it says
so much that I would have liked to say to John, but Jeff did a very nice
job on it. If you'd like to see the lyrics and/or find out more about the
album, go to:
http://www.concentric.net/~ddunet/thankyou.html
BTW if anyone would like to help me get sound files up onto the web site,
so that we could have a little sample of the song, instead of just the
lyrics, I would love a little technical help! The graphics I can do, the
sound stuff it a little outta my league.
Thanks, the "always interested in learning something new":
Michelle Stevens,
Bloodlines Mailing List Manager (bloodlines @world.std.com) and
John Stewart Site Webmistress (http://www.concentric.net/~ddunet/)
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Thank You Lonesome Picker
Date: 96-11-16
From: PeterB1103@aol.com
I have Jeff McDonald's album too, and I agree that this is a wonderful song.
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: RE: Oh Boy---A group project
Date: 96-11-17
From: don-fish@msn.com (D. & F. R.)
> 1. Did Pat Boone ever record July You're a Woman.
> 2. What album is it on.
> 3. How can I get that album. (I just know that Susan would
> love to find it under her Christmas tree.)
``July'' also turns up on Pat Boone's Greatest Hits Vol. 2. -- Don/Peeveyroo
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: signals and triggers
Date: 96-11-17
From: paulkris@erinet.com (paul rybolt)
I had a long, solitary road trip yesterday and took along my J.S. Greatest
Hits Vol. 1 (of 6) tape for company. Coupled with the fact that I recently
re-read Eco's book on Semiotics, I started thinking about what it is that
causes me to enjoy JS's songs so much. This is a rambling explanation. I
get triggers from music and I get triggers from lyrics. With JS I get them
from both sources. If Bloodlines was sung in Urdu I'd be faking it right
along with the boys in the band. On the Other hand some of the verses work
for me as poetry and evoke memories and emotions apart from the music. I
listen to a lot of music, having over 600 CD's and 800 cassettes. No other
artist can consistently move me like JS does. I can listen to Jesse Colin
Young's music and really get off on the notes but the lyrics are just
there. With Van Morrison I wouldn't presume to either try to sing along or
anticipate the music with his performance. With JS music it's more of a
friend sending me something and maybe talking (humming, singing boldly???)
about shared experiences. My favorite JS lyric is the second? lost? verse
to Bloodlines that he does on the Phoenix Concert record. I made a copy of
the LP for my best friend back in about 1975 and he listened to it
continuously. He was a Ranger up in Yosemite and was killed in a car crash
on his way into Merced one night. It's been 15 years and I still believe
that he was listening to that tape when he died. It's a great comfort to me
to believe in this. I got to stop reading this heavy stuff and eating
pizza. You all be well. paul
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: signals and triggers
Date: 96-11-17
From: MFinleyCS@aol.com
Paul,
I think I know what you mean about both the lyrics and music. What
discourages me is the fact that my wife, my kids, and my friends do not enjoy
JS recordings. I find so much intelligence in the lyrics, and so much, I
don't know, gut-level "appeal," I guess, in the music. Is it merely a matter
of taste, do you think, or am I really a whole lot smarter and more
discriminating than my family and friends? Hoo.
Mitch
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: signals and triggers
Date: 96-11-17
From: Bluesy33@aol.com
Phoenix Concerts is a religious experience. My first exposure to this great
talent. I wish I could listen to it again for the first time.
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: signals and triggers
Date: 96-11-17
From: Bluesy33@aol.com
Mitch
I've had the same experience with wonderful people who just don't seem to get
it. I've come to realize that they are just aren't on our level of music/art
appreciation. His music is accessible but requires a sensitivity of spirit
and emotional openness to receive properly.
Blue
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: signals and triggers
Date: 96-11-17
From: insman@citynet.net (Ron Fleshman)
MFinleyCS@aol.com wrote:
>
> Paul,
> I think I know what you mean about both the lyrics and music. What
> discourages me is the fact that my wife, my kids, and my friends do not enjoy
> JS recordings. I find so much intelligence in the lyrics, and so much, I
> don't know, gut-level "appeal," I guess, in the music. Is it merely a matter
> of taste, do you think, or am I really a whole lot smarter and more
> discriminating than my family and friends? Hoo.
>
> Mitch
Yes, you are. At least I think I am--and BTW, my family enjoys JS. I,
over the last 18 years have won them over. It's a tough job, but
somebody had to do it <GGG>.
Ron
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: signals and triggers
Date: 96-11-17
From: cockatoo@bslnet.com (Nancy Talbott)
I have the same "problem" with most of my friends...It seems to me that the
average person mostly doesn't want to listen or watch or read anything that
makes them "think". They prefer brainless "fluff" and drivel, as opposed to
something that stirs emotions, feelings, and/or intelligent thought. John's
decision to not write "fluff" for the masses who listen to anything put in
front of them is a sound one, although it seems to have precluded him from
"commercial" success. If he's anything like me, I'd rather have 10 people
understand and love what I do, than have a 100 listening to somthing I
didn't want to do. Thanks, John....
(Guess that makes us ..."A Cut Above" ?????) :)))))
Nancy
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: signals and triggers
Date: 96-11-17
From: MFinleyCS@aol.com
Thanks for the observations. One important thing I find about the JS
experience is that you absolutely have got to listen to the lyrics, and they
reward that listening. How many times have I gone back to a JS song I
haven't listened to lately and found ideas I missed before? I had completely
missed the fact that there is a verse in the Phoenix Concerts version of
"California Bloodlines" that isn't in other recorded versions. Astonishing
and delightful verse it is, too. Got out the CD version and listened a
little while ago. . . I listened to "Teresa...and the Lost Songs" over and
over for days, in my car. Loaded. Knocks me out. Now am doing the same
thing with "Rough Sketches." At least my wife is willing to humor me enough
to order JS stuff I don't already have, from "Dave" and Homecoming, for my
birthday. . .
Mitch
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: signals and triggers
Date: 96-11-17
From: cockatoo@bslnet.com (Nancy Talbott)
Most of the time it "seems" like the "first time" to me :))))
Nancy
At 09:30 PM 11/17/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Phoenix Concerts is a religious experience. My first exposure to this great
>talent. I wish I could listen to it again for the first time.
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: No Subject
Date: 96-11-18
From: Dan_Hodges@usccmail.lehman.com (Dan Hodges)
> Paul,
> I think I know what you mean about both the lyrics and music. What
> discourages me is the fact that my wife, my kids, and my friends do
> not enjoy JS recordings. I find so much intelligence in the lyrics,
> and so much, I don't know, gut-level "appeal," I guess, in the music.
> Is it merely a matter of taste, do you think, or am I really a whole lot
> smarter and more discriminating than my family and friends? Hoo.
> Mitch
>Most of the time it "seems" like the "first time" to me :))))
>Nancy
I just wanted to chime in on the many excellent observations here..
I too have friends whom I consider very intelligent and receptive
people for the most part, but they just do not get it when it comes to
John's music. I can only conclude that they do not want to invest the
level of "discriminating thought and intelligent listening" required
to appreciate the treasures available there.
On the other hand I never stop trying to educate the deprived masses
who have not heard John and every so often I do create a "convert".
I like Nancy's observation that listening to Phoenix Concerts seems
like the first time - most of the time. It does for me too. It's the
one album I never tire of. No matter what may be going on in my world,
I pop it in the CD player and everything seems just fine again.
Now for a "far out" thought concerning the P.C. only Bloodlines verse:
Does anyone remember a movie from about 7 - 8 years ago called
Flatliners? It starred Keither Suderland and Julia Roberts. It was
about medical students experimenting with death or near death...
well there is one part where the experiment's subject seems to travel
back to before he was born AND I swear he was rolling 'round the
heavens and saw the great Sierra mountains.
The only other person I ever told about this observation was my ex
wife and she concluded that I was totally insane and hallucinating
about JS songs in everything I saw.... She may have been right???
"Im worried about you and I'm worried 'bout me"
Dan H.
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: No Subject
Date: 96-11-18
From: MFinleyCS@aol.com
Hee, hee, hee. . . I love it. : )
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: signals and triggers
Date: 96-11-18
From: delausa@mailbox.syr.edu (Del Lausa)
I was surprised at the 100% approval rating John's music got from my
Reading and Interpretation class this semester. Believe me, these people
let me know when they *don't* like something--and they absolutely loved
Rocket Roy. There was so much in that text and the associations it evokes
that there was no possibility of exhausting the reading--which was the
point. The more we talked and wrote, the more interesting the tape became.
We had to pull ourselves away to move on to the rest of the course.
I'm sharing this in this context because, yes, I think people have to be in
an "open" frame of mind and spirit in order to really appreciate the
complexity (and, ironically, the simplicity) of John Stewart's songs.
Haven't most of us said that first listenings are not always the best?
Doesn't the music get better and richer the more we listen and think? So,
my theory for why some people get it and some people don't: John's songs
demand something from the listener--they are interactive. You have to be
willing to engage. Passive listening is inadequate.
del
Bluesy wrote:
>
>I've had the same experience with wonderful people who just don't seem to get
>it. I've come to realize that they are just aren't on our level of music/art
>appreciation. His music is accessible but requires a sensitivity of spirit
>and emotional openness to receive properly.
>
>Blue
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: No Subject
Date: 96-11-18
From: cockatoo@bslnet.com (Nancy Talbott)
Since we were talking about Pat Boone and Stewart songs, etc...
If anyone doesn't know about it, there is a great web site called CDNOW
They claim to carry all types of music, and they do have quite a few Stewart
CD's.
(from what I gather tho, John wouldn't see any royalties from purchase here)
Most of their CD's have song lists included also, so you can see what's on
it. They claim fast delivery and their prices aren't bad either. I have
not ordered from them yet, but they look pretty reputable.
Anyway, thought you might be interested because they MIGHT have that Pat
Boone Greatest Hits, on CD..( I haven't checked yet) <G>
The URL is http://www.cdnow.com
Nancy
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: First hearings and other stuff
Date: 96-11-18
From: M.J.Mooney@Bradford.ac.uk (Mike Mooney)
There have been several recent postings on the relative success or failure
of turning other people on to John's music; and tales of first hearings
compared to repeated hearings. Here are some of my experiences:
My first exposure to John Stewart was hearing Noel Edmonds playing 'July' on
BBC Radio 1. I thought it was wonderful, but couldn't find the record. This
would have been just before the release of 'Lonesome Picker Rides Again' -
which he *also* played a lot of. I enjoyed that too, but not as much as
'JYAW'. Apart from a few references in the late lamented magazine 'ZigZag',
I heard little more about John's music for a couple of years.
Fast forward to 1974. I am a final year student at Leeds University. On a
random browse in a local record shop I spot California Bloodlines and
immediately buy it. I take it back to the student flat I share with four
other guys, retreat to my room and play it several times. Naturally I am
smitten.
That night four of us are sitting in the kitchen drinking beer and starting
the all-night poker school, with my cheap lo-fi in attendance. Knowing my
friends' tastes I am a little wary of playing my new discovery. Eventually
someone picks it up and says "What's this like?". "Er, sort of counyry-ish"
I reply cautiously. He frowns a little but puts it on anyway. Thirty
seconds in, someone smirks "Sounds like Johnny Cash". A minute in (slightly
grudgingly), "But better".
The side finishes and we turn it over. By now the room is filling with
smoke, the cards are flying across the table and the pile of empties is
building up. The album finishes. "What shall we have next?" I say. "Put that
on again" comes the reply. They are hooked.
Then a small disaster strikes. During the third consecutive playing, I get
up to get another beer, trip over the speaker cable and bring the whole
shooting match crashing to the floor. The stylus gouges a battlefield map of
the Western front across my beloved new album.
Being an impoverished student I cannot afford to simply buy another copy. So
the next day I commit a small act of dishonesty; I walk back into the record
shop, take the disc out of its sleeve and in my best disgruntled voice
exclaim: "I bought this album in here yesterday - and just *look* at the
state of it! It's totally unplayable!" Note the truth of the statement. I
didn't say it had been in that condition when I bought it; but I didn't say
that I had caused the scratches either. The assistant buys it. He looks
apologetic and says "Oh, I'm sorry, I'll replace it of course", and does so.
Phew.
Over the next few months, CB becomes one of the most played albums in the
house. Over the next few *years* it becomes one of the most played albums in
my collection, and is rapidly joined by as many other John Stewart albums as
I can lay my hands on.
Fast forward again to 1981. By now I have met the woman that I am going to
marry. But first there is one last test of our compatibility; her initial
reaction to CB is noncommital. Then one day I come home and find her playing
it and singing along. Bingo. Book the church, Reverend...
Maybe I've been lucky, but everyone I've tried to turn on to John has taken
the bait with enthusiasm. It's easy. And California Bloodlines is still my
favourite album. Only now it's a CD.
Mike
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: No Subject
Date: 96-11-18
From: MFinleyCS@aol.com
Good to have you back again, Nancy. Thanks for the tip.
Mitch
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Welcome Back Nancy
Date: 96-11-19
From: WardHorde@aol.com
Nancy,
I'm glad you reconsidered and are back on the group.
Marty
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: First hearings / lyrics/images
Date: 96-11-19
From: ClackClack@aol.com
Thanks Mike for your delightful tale. A good word portrait like our favorite
artist does. Lots of good posts coming in from the group. Some John songs
catch me first with the music, and some catch me with the lyrics. Some it is
just simply the way they are woven so beautifully together which is my
opinion of Rough Sketches and why I think I like it so much.
As far as "hooking" friends on John, I too over countless years have tried to
capture souls with John's music. I agree with the remarks made that it takes
a certain appreciation for music and words to respond. But I never cease to
be surprised by people who I was "sure" would love John and went ho-hum, and
then, just the opposite. Recently I had a convert at work. This friend is in
her late 40's. She's a very pretty latina. Her usual music is a mix of Gloria
Estafen, dance music and Motown, with a bit of the blues. I've known her for
years and know how much she loves music, but her listening pleasures were far
from mine. So a few months back I was listening to a homemade "favorites"
tapes which was heavy on Punch and Bullets as I was doing some research.
Maybe I was singing or humming along, I don't know. Had the headphones on.
She comes over and asks who I'm listening to. Oh John Stewart I said, want to
listen?. Yolanda knows I don't listen to all that much else then John
Stewart, Mary Chapin, Dar Williams and a few others. But with her usual type
of music I never thought she might be interested in John. I was dead wrong.
She listened to the tape the rest of the afternoon and at quitting time asked
to take it home for the weekend. The next Monday she told me how she had
listened to the tape all weekend long, and so loud that her neighbors came
over to see if there was a party. She asked for more. I sent her home with
Teresa and the Lost Songs and Secret Tapes 86. She said her mother had come
over and asked her if she was OK because "Yolanda, I've never heard you play
this kind of music before". For Yolanda, she likes the music, she likes the
words, she likes John's voice. One just never knows...
For me, I'd be real hard pressed to define what is so special about John
Stewart's music. It's the voice, the stories and images they invoke,
surprisingly fine guitar playing on top of all that (I just love the guitar
noodlings John lays down on Rosanne Cash's Interiors album. Three or four
notes and you know exactly who it is and its damn fine). But John caught me
at a young age, all of about 9 years old. What was it? Why did it hold me so
all these years? There have been only a handful of artists who have reached
me so strongly in my 43 years. New likes come and go. Just a very few remain.
John is there "forever".
Ron
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re:
Date: 96-11-19
From: cnewton@fyi.net (Christopher Newton)
At 10:36 AM 11/18/96 -0500, you wrote:
> Paul,
> I think I know what you mean about both the lyrics and music. What
> discourages me is the fact that my wife, my kids, and my friends do
> not enjoy JS recordings. I find so much intelligence in the lyrics,
> and so much, I don't know, gut-level "appeal," I guess, in the music.
> Is it merely a matter of taste, do you think, or am I really a whole lot smarter
> and more discriminating than my family and friends? Hoo.
> Mitch
>
Here's a modest proposal that might solve your concerns:
Leave your wife and family, get a new set of friends, hit the Neon Road and
shout, "I am alive!" against the Oklahoma horizon.
Kit Newton
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Modest Proposal.
Date: 96-11-19
From: MFinleyCS@aol.com
In a message dated 96-11-19 12:34:11 EST, you write:
<< Here's a modest proposal that might solve your concerns:
Leave your wife and family, get a new set of friends, hit the Neon Road and
shout, "I am alive!" against the Oklahoma horizon.
Kit Newton >>
Yuk, yuk. Very clever, indeed. : )
Mitch
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Describing Stewart
Date: 96-11-20
From: don-fish@msn.com (D. & F. R.)
Loved Mike's post. Lots I could related to there.
The particular graph I wanted to expand on was:
>That night four of us are sitting in the kitchen drinking beer and starting
>the all-night poker school, with my cheap lo-fi in attendance. Knowing my
>friends' tastes I am a little wary of playing my new discovery. Eventually
>someone picks it up and says "What's this like?". "Er, sort of counyry-ish"
>I reply cautiously. He frowns a little but puts it on anyway. Thirty
>seconds in, someone smirks "Sounds like Johnny Cash". A minute in
>(slightly grudgingly), "But better".
Which brings this: I think ``Er, sort of country-ish'' is about as good as any
for the Stewart sound in California Bloodlines. But what about today? ``Sort
of country-ish'' doesn't work for his career body of work. And in fact, I
can't think of ANY single shelf that he fits on comfortably.
I've usually said folk-rock. A couple of local record stores have him in both
Folk and Rock. The others around here tend to have him in Rock. I think,
especially in the present stage of his career, it would be hard to just label
him a folk artist. ``Bandera'' was rock, and he's been mighty electric for a
couple of decades now.
Now partly, this is a pretty useless issue. I'll grant that finding the right
label to slap on his jar doesn't really get us anywhere. Except. Except I
think that this hard-to-defineness of Stewart is part of his appeal to me.
And it also might be part of his problem comercially.
I value the idea that I can buy a Stewart album pretty much knowing I'll love
it, but never knowing in what way I'll love it. If his career started with
sort-of-country-ish, the first few electric notes of ``Fire in the Wind''
signaled a big career shift. And even since then amid the more electric
Stewart sound/style, he has also tossed out out-of-the-blue works like
``Blondes,'' and ``Rocket Roy'' that don't really link up with much before
or since. And then he brings it all together with a career retrospective like
``Airdream Believer'' which spans five decades and yet sounds so unified that
none of the evolution seems so dramatic anymore.
Anyway, all this to get to a mighty basic question for Bloodlines: What kind
of music is it that our guy does?
--Don/Peeveyroo
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Describing Stewart
Date: 96-11-20
From: cnewton@fyi.net (Christopher Newton)
>Anyway, all this to get to a mighty basic question for Bloodlines: What kind
>of music is it that our guy does?
>
>--Don/Peeveyroo
>
Eclectic, electric folk music that "touches your very soul."
Kit Newton
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Describing Stewart
Date: 96-11-20
From: cockatoo@bslnet.com (Nancy Talbott)
The kind that you can't get anywhere else....
Accept no substitutes....only the ONE and only will do......
John is in a class by himself. :)))))
Nancy
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Where is everyone??
Date: 96-11-22
From: Dan_Hodges@usccmail.lehman.com (Dan Hodges)
Is the Mail List broken??
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Where is everyone??
Date: 96-11-22
From: DMotley@aol.com
No, it's not broken Dan, I'm here.
Today is Nov. 22, thirty three years since Kennedy was assasinated. I think
I'll drag out my copy of the Kingston Trio's " Time To Think" when I get
home today and listen to Song For A Friend which John authored on or about
this date in 1963.
" Keep it flyin' "
DMotley
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Where is everyone??
Date: 96-11-22
From: GriffPR@aol.com
Thanks for reminding us about November 22 and John's great "Song For A
Friend". I think I, too, will listen to it again tonight. (I understand
John has never performed this song in concert.)
My copy of "Time to Think" --22 years old--is getting pretty beat up. Does
anyone know of any plans to re-release "Time to Think" in either CD or (dream
on!) vinyl?
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Nov 22
Date: 96-11-22
From: Lordfrench@aol.com
Remember, so well, that day, a gray cold day in the midwest, and the news
that afternoon.
Ironically, the song that was playing on local radio and running through my
head that morning--the last innocent morning--and as the day progressed, was
the single "Ally Ally Oxen Free" by theTrio from the "Time To Think" album.
I was never able to hear it again without a sense of the shock that hit.
Another lesson we didn't want to learn.
Regarding re-releases of the Stewart Trio, our last hope is Bear Family records
of Germany, I think, who have reportedly bought the entire KT collection from
Capitol and are expected to release the whole shebang in one monster multi-CD
package,which I can't wait for. Expected fairly soon, late '96 or early '97.
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Where is everyone??
Date: 96-11-22
From: insman@citynet.net (Ron Fleshman)
Dan Hodges wrote:
Is the Mail List broken??
I think not !!!
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Re: Where is everyone??
Date: 96-11-22
From: PFARNAM@aol.com
What's happening re the next chat? Has it been scheduled? Is anybody
interested? I sure am.
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: chat for aol- Dec 3
Date: 96-11-22
From: ClackClack@aol.com
AOL folks-
I've picked Tuesday December 3 at 6:30 Pacific for the chat. I know its a bit
in the future but holidays and such are busy times. Mark your calendar.
Hopefully John and/or Dave can make this date. As usual I expect the chat to
be irreverent and fun.
Go to keyword "People Connection" or click on the people icon in your
toolbar.
Click on private rooms.
type roomname neonroad and you'll be there.
Non-AOL folks. I'll keep a log and post it to my website shortly thereafter.
Won't help out on being there but at least you'll catch a bit of the fun.
Also, maybe as of Dec 1 you can "buy in" to AOL , but accessing from your
outside internet provider for about $10 a month. Don't know if the UK folks
can do that tho. Maybe our expert cockatoo Nancy knows? -Ron
-------------------------------------------------------
Subj: Where is everyone??
Date: 96-11-22
From: ddunet@concentric.net (Michelle L Stevens)
Dan wrote:
> Is the Mail List broken??
I think we're just in a quiet mood considering the events of 33 years ago.
BTW, all I remember is sitting crosslegged in front of the hotel TV (my
family was being transferred once again) asking my parents why there was
nothing on TV except for that horse pulling a cart with a flag draped over
it. (I was 3)
Michelle
------------------------------------------------------
end of Nov96(C) Bloodlines archive
Back to the archive menu